SUBSCRIBE >>

“Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love.”

Martin Luther King
Nobel Prize Acceptance speech, 1964

Today we celebrate Martin Luther King’s birthday, and of course the ascent to power of America’s first Black (well, sort of) President. More on that in other posts.

1968 and beyond

King was murdered in 1968 – what an incredible, tumultuous year. Anti-war hysteria and conflict. The disastrous Democratic convention in Chicago. And TWO political assassinations (Bobby Kennedy, remember?).

First there was JFK in 1963. It seems that one assassination establishes, at least in the minds of other psychotics, that taking out a major political figure is a way of making a statement, redeeming a useless life, impressing Jodie Foster, or whatever. Political murder became legitimate, if only briefly.

I’m glad it’s gone out of style in America. We have enough external enemies to deal with. Bush found a way to make himself assassination-proof: Cheney. I’ve always thought of Cheney as Bush’s assassination insurance. Who wants a President who’s worse than the jerk you killed?

The progress that Blacks have made since 1968 is truly impressive. Much of the reason why they endured 100 years of Jim Crow after slavery was government – the racist politicians who pandered to racist voters, allowed segregation to stay in place, and refused to lead bigoted whites out of it by proposing the kind of bold changes that the civil rights movement had to initiate.

It was the federal government that reversed the situation, but only after the brave and sustained protests of Dr. King and his contemporaries. Politicians are followers, not leaders.

And can you imagine, some elements of American society were so enraged at the thought of Black equality that they murdered Dr. King, as if that would end it? Such murder is vile – and futile. You can “decapitate” a movement, but it still lives.

How America used to be

I CAN imagine that kind of hatred. I grew up in an America where Blacks and Jews knew their place. My father had two Black pharmacists working for him. He was the only druggist in town who would give them jobs.

Outrageous truth

But in college, I really found out the truth. I read the works of James Baldwin, Richard Wright, Ralph Ellison, and others, as research for my Honors Thesis, a study of African-American dialect in literature.

The books were an eye-opener. Up to then, I really did not know what was going on: the terror, the violence, the lynchings, the countless everyday insults and humiliations big and small. Separate drinking fountains and movie seats. No Blacks in the major sports leagues. How the fuck could these things happen in America?

As a jazz musician, I was and am particularly outraged at the treatment of Black artists, restricted from countless performance venues, abused by the police (because of drug prohibition), and generally denied the recognition due them (eventually, that changed).

The mind and career of Bud Powell, an early jazz piano genius, were ruined by a police beating. Just one more victim of the race hatred that poisoned America for so long.

So the persistence of Blacks and the indignation of whites at the suffering of their fellow Americans eventually brought the government into it, to FINALLY grant Black Americans the privilege of “liberty and justice for all.”

Still enslaved

Yet Blacks remain enslaved. As Jesse Jackson might say, the freedom process is not yet complete.

They remain enslaved to the double standard and racial preferences promoted by the government. The smiley faces of “diversity” and “affirmative action” are everywhere the rule in corporate and academic America.

Diversity is a HUGE business, with many consultants and publications. I received an e-version of Diversity Business, which caused in me the same disgust and revulsion as would a similar communication from the Aryan Nation or the KKK (with chirpy articles like “Ten More Reasons Why It’s Right to be White”).

But at least you can ignore these groups. No one is forced to pay attention to them, whereas MANY people (some, I promise you, inwardly sullen) do have to go through communist-style “Diversity Awareness” training.

Companies brag about their numbers of Blacks, Hispanics and women, as dog breeders would boast of prize hounds in their kennel. Sharp Black women can practically write their own ticket. In the diversity tally, they count double!

In addition, governments and companies have “minority supplier programs” or “supplier diversity programs” that discriminate against white male enterprises, small businesses, and consultants. A large company can have hundreds or thousands of such suppliers. That’s a lot of discrimination. and a lot of fatuous self-congratulation.

It is inhumane and reprehensible to make white males pay for the sins of other white males. It is the same kind of race hatred we Jews have experienced for centuries. It is the kind of self-righteous vengeance that Dr. King abhorred.

Blacks continue to be enslaved to their second-class status and the notion that they need special treatments and standards. How are they ever going to get the respect they need and deserve if they can never shake the suspicion that their race was a factor in their success?

Double standard continued indefinitely?

So…now that a (sort of) Black man occupies the Oval Office, how long can we expect the double standard to continue? As long as it benefits the politicians who play to Blacks’ sense of helplessness and entitlement to government rescue? Well, that’s forever. As long as there’s a racist thought or perceived racial slight in America? That too will be forever.

I’m with Milton Friedman. Companies should obey the law, create jobs, and make money. That’s quite enough. They are not social-engineering organizations.

American companies waste tons of time and money on diversity activities and on recruiting minorities; all of this useless expenditure (including “diversity conferences” and much else) takes resources and energy away from the actual business and makes companies LESS competitive in a global marketplace that doesn’t give a damn about “proportional representation.”

Blacks should stop pretending they can’t do it without special benefits. Black intellectual achievement and entrepreneurship go back to the 19th century, at least. Read up on John Johnson, one of the greatest Black businessmen ever. Or Bessie Coleman, the aviatrix. There were many others. (Fact check: Many Black “firsts” and accomplishments are open to question and dispute. But many are undisputably real.)

Blacks already have tremendous successes everywhere in American life, AND, very importantly, because of that success, there’s now a huge number of professional organizations that educate, sponsor, network, mentor, and promote ONLY BLACKS. There are associations of Black lawyers, doctors, accountants/finance people — groups for practically every profession.

Enough already. The mechanism for even more Black success is in place. But as long as Black people continue to depend on government and white guilt, much of that success is and will be tainted.

R-E-S-P-E-C-T

Elimination of all special preferences is the key to what Blacks seek: success WITH RESPECT (as in merit-based pursuits like sports and the arts). People should be judged on the content of their character, not the color of their skin – remember Dr. King saying that?

The other chain that drags Black people down is their religion. Unfortunately, there’s even less hope of change here than in politics and the workplace.

People whose situation is desperate, who lose faith that there is an end to suffering and indignity in this world, take refuge in fantasy. Jews have done it too. They give up on reality and people – which is most unfortunate, since that is the only way Black salvation has ever taken place.

Black salvation

If brave civil rights workers had not stood up to the fire hoses in Selma, Alabama…Jesus or Mary would not have done it for them. Martin Luther King put himself in the line of fire, but Jesus didn’t take the bullet for him. God did not deliver Blacks from slavery – or Jews from Hitler.

Not that Black churches don’t do good things. The impulse for civil rights came from the churches, among other places – and it’s really a shame that people couldn’t figure out for themselves that we’re all created equal, but had to rely on ancient authorities and the accompanying myths. Plus, all that time spent singing and talking to Jesus could be devoted to improving society and the world.

Morality and myth

But now Blacks are wedded to the morality AND the myths. For most Blacks, they’re inseparable.

And Obama does nothing to discourage it. There was nothing that could keep him out of a Black church on this day — and no way the Tribune, here in religion City, would show him in any other context. Black President, Black icon, Black religion all mixed together into a syrupy goo of sentimentality and religious hogwash, reinforcing the message that Black people’s salvation comes from Jesus and the government, in that order.

You go to church to learn to be good AND to talk to and sing about God and Jesus. The overpoweringly emotional music and hypnotic cadences of the preacher (which King used so well) help make sure of that.

There are signs of hope. There’s a Black atheist rapper, Eddie Collins, aka Greydon Square, and my friend Reggie Finley, The Infidel Guy.

Reggie’s site lists many other Black freethinkers, people I was never aware of, because Black preachers are always hogging the stage.

Blacks’ salvation lies in themselves and their fellow human beings – not imaginary deities and hypocritical politicians.

When they realize this, they will achieve the freedom that Dr. King dreamed of. Until then, the government and the Black clergy, in exchange for all the false reassurances and paternalistic benefits, will keep them subordinate and dependent.

___________________

Alan M. Perlman is a secular humanist speaker and author — most recently, of An Atheist Reads the Torah: Secular Humanistic Perspectives on the Five Books of Moses. For information, go to www.trafford.com/06-0056. He is the founder of Positive Humanists International/PHI©.

27 Responses to “In memoriam, Martin Luther King, Jr.: 40 years later, Blacks still enslaved (revised)”

  1. on 18 Jan 2008 at 8:41 pmterror

    […] Martin Luther King: 40 years later, Blacks still enslaved […]

  2. on 04 Feb 2008 at 8:11 pmJeffrey

    I agree with you that blacks being special and having minority treatments only lights the existence of our “inferiority”. I was born in the caribbean island of haiti. Haitian man adopted by a Jewish man. But to be honest, these special treatments have helped me to some extent. It is a help. I am not an black american who feels “victimized” mentality towards white america and thinks i deserve reparations etc. I have a love for Jews because they have been through such issues but remain somewhat together instead of perpetuating a vain victim mentality. I love your site bc to me a Jew is not a religion but a way of being.

  3. on 04 Feb 2008 at 9:03 pmAlan

    Hi Jeffrey,

    Nice to hear from you! :)

    Your background is most interesting — Haitian and Jewish! Are you both?

    We Humanistic Jews do not adopt a victim mentality, but I think some Jews do, unfortunately.

    Thank you so much for your kind words about the site and what I am trying to do with it. “Not a religion but a way of being” is a perfect description. Many “religious” Jews would not consider me Jewish, but that’s their problem.

    shalom,

    Alan

  4. on 04 Apr 2008 at 4:11 pmElisha

    Another excellent post Alan.

    I actually got my husband to start reading your blog. He was raised Roman Catholic but he can’t seem to shake the last trace of religion in him. He subscribes to a creator deity, not a deity who intervenes in earthly life or one that needs worship. Basically, he’s an atheist but just won’t admit it. lol

    He can completely relate to the diversity issue as his company continues to hold these seminars to promote it.

    One of our recent pet peeves is our health insurance. They are now allowing ANYONE who lives with the employee (policy holder) for 1 year, including non-relative children, to be covered under the policy. This is aimed to provide equality for homosexual relationships. (absent of legal marriage) However, they can’t just say that people of the same sex who co-habitate for a year, is eligible for coverage. That would “discriminate” against those who are heterosexual who choose to live together sans marriage.

    This is bullshit. First of all, my rates have gone up over 30% since the implementation of this policy. Secondly, anyone can get proof of cohabitating. I can see this getting out of control where everyone and their children can get coverage through my husbands employer. And of course, we pay for it.

    The employer claims that 40% of the fortune 500 companies are doing this and in order to remain competitive, they have to offer similar packages for their employees.

    Anyway, back to your post. If I was black, I would be insulted at affirmative action. Basically, the government is telling black people that they are not capable of competing fairly in the open market. So, they will LOWER THE STANDARDS for them. THAT is racist.

  5. on 04 Apr 2008 at 4:15 pmElisha

    I also wanted to say how much I enjoy reading your blog. You have a healthy mix of politics, religion and personal stories to keep it interesting. Keep up the good work.

  6. on 04 Apr 2008 at 6:06 pmAlan

    Hi Elisha…

    Communcations such as yours absolutely MAKE MY DAY. It’s wonderful to know that someone is listening. I try to say things that no one else is saying. Certainly now that I’m out of the corporate environment, I’m free to rail against diversity.

    Please tell your husband that I sympathize. And that I said that the difference between civil rights and diversity/-affirmative action is the difference between summer camp and concentration camp.

    As for his (non)theism, if you don’t believe in Bible-God, then what’s left? It does take courage to get to unbelief when everybody around you is pretending otherwise.

    I will blog until my fingers and voice are still (a long time). The world is in the grip of religious fantasies and crazy politicians. I’m afraid we’re screwed (”intelligent, but not intelligent enough” — Swift, I think). All I can do is speak the truth. Wait till Mom hears my Seder.

    I am sorry you have experienced rank unfairness. How can we get the companies OUT of the health insurance business? They sell it as a benefit, but they’re liars, because all of it comes out of the employee’s paycheck. That’s one big reason why salaries haven’t kept pace with inflation.

    Thanks again for the kind words.

    shalom,

    Alan

  7. on 04 Apr 2008 at 8:22 pmElisha

    >It does take courage to get to unbelief when everybody around you is pretending otherwise. >

    I agree. Expecially knowing that the consequence for disclosure is isolation from one’s family. A person MUST be psychologically strong to live their life without their family. After 20 years, I still find myself becoming depressed occasionally over what I consider a betrayal of the most basic ethic - family values and unconditional love.

    I haven’t spoke to any of my 3 sisters OR my father in MONTHS. We have nothing in common since their entire world revolves around OJ. Really, the only thing that pulls me through is KNOWING that I will NEVER abandon my children, regardless of their choices or beliefs. I mourn for the family loyalty I wish I had.

    Since my mother died in 2005, I’ve become more outspoken with my family. I used to just go with the flow. They always knew that I wasn’t a believer but I always showed respect. I still do, but in 05 and 06, I started having conversations with my sisters with the goal of trying to have them critically thinking about their religion.

    I asked one of my sisters (who is a married to a MO Rabbi in NJ) why she follows such rigid rules without concrete evidence that this is what your god wants or even that there is such a thing called “god.” This was right after I discovered the pre-torn toilet paper in the bathroom. She said that she has no idea if there is a god. But if there is, she wants her place in the afterlife. (olam haba)

    Oy Vey. An agnostic rebitzen. Scarier though, is her use of Pascal’s Wager, as if it is some intellectual epiphany. She never heard of Pascal’s Wager or how it was refuted ages ago. My sister has a masters degree and has never, in the course of her 6 year college education, took a logic class.

    Imagine how quickly we could eradicate religion if we made high school kids take a class on logical fallacies.

  8. on 04 Apr 2008 at 8:29 pmElisha

    I just realized that you were talking about MY HUSBAND having the courage to come to unbelief when everybody around you is pretending otherwise.

    And here I went off on a tangent about myself. lol

  9. on 04 Apr 2008 at 9:35 pmEd

    I am reminded of how a cowboy goes to a big city, sits next to a prety young lady and tries to buy her a drink.
    She declines, because she says she’s a lesbian. The cowboy, being from a rather small town says he doesn’t understand what that is, and she explains that she spends her day thinking of other women, from early morning to late night.
    The cowboy, nods, as if in agreement, and a couple of minutes later has a confession to make. All his life he thought he was a cowboy, but tonight, he realized that he’s a lesbian!

  10. on 04 Apr 2008 at 10:40 pmAlan

    Reply to Elisha,

    Oh, I thoroughly empathize with you too — you have already taken the step, but you still have to deal with the people around you. You have to live with their anger and exclusion (Humanists never do these things). I know other people in the same situation. Cut off from their families.

    These Orthodox Jews can be so self-righteous. What’s MO anyway? Severe spinning of the Torah? Tucking your pais up under your yarmulke? I wrote some fundraising stuff for a MO school, and I don’t think it makes much sense.

    My family is of the lukewarm, call-us-Conservative, do-it- because-everybody-else-is denomination of Judaism. On my Mother’s side especially, they like to avoid controversy, so we overlook the differences and try to get along (I don’t respect them but keep it to myself).

    I would never discuss religion with my dear cousin Brenda on my father’s side. She and Chuck are hard-core Conservatives (threatened to take away med school if son Jeffrey married a shicksa).

    To Mom’s credit, she does have my atheist book on her coffee table.

    I believe that religion can get so integrated into your neurology that you cannot think critically about it. Is not uncritical thinking the hallmark of faith? As for the agnostic rebbitzen, this too is a mentality Humanists must try to understand. Do such people lack courage — like children, behaving as if God’s watching?

    For faster answer, you can use jazzman633@aol.com or even IM (yahoo or aol).

    Living with religious people is a challenge that Humanists should not face alone.

    shalom,

    A.

  11. on 04 Apr 2008 at 10:41 pmAlan

    To Ed…

    I’m keeping that for my Redneck Humor file. Thanks! :)

    shalom,

    A.

  12. on 05 Apr 2008 at 12:33 amElisha

    > On my Mother’s side especially, they like to avoid controversy, so we overlook the differences and try to get along (I don’t respect them but keep it to myself). >

    That described my mother to a tee. Others may find this personality trait admiring, I don’t. I loved my mother to pieces and respected her as my mother but she was way too passive about things. Keeping the peace was more important than fighting a moral battle. (ie: I had educational issues which needed to be addressed and she never actively advocated for me) She NEVER would address complications because that would cause stife for her. So, she always dismissed my questions and referred me to Rabbi ——- . My mother was generous and loving and I needed that and I was willing to have our relationship on those terms BUT I don’t respect the mentality of avoidance.

    She was true to form until the end. Diagnosed with Cancer for the 2nd time, this time it advanced to stage 4. She managed to convince herself that if she doesn’t have negative thoughts, she may recover. She never talked about her impending death or even her treatments, for that matter. I never knew she wore a wig until she was hooked up to the morphine tubes in her last days.

    My father never even considered ( I asked him this) asking my mother about a health care proxy or a DNR order. - It would upset her too much. He told me that her doctor tried to speak with her about her wishes and she just dismissed him by saying that she prefers not to think about those things. To me, this is utterly irresponsible as we were left with making medical decisions which my parents could have foreseen given her illness.

    I was brought up, until my teenage years, Conservatively Jewish. My father desired a more orthodox lifestyle and overnight (which is how I remember it anyway) my 13 year old world was turned upside down. All these new rules and regulations.

    My mother woefully admitted to me in 2001 that she doesn’t prefer the orthodox lifestyle over the conservative community which she helped build. She told me that she stays because it makes my father happy. That was so sad.

    Then, during Shiva for my mother, my father told me that his decision to become orthodox was not something that my mother desired. He went on to tell me that my mother “understood” that their marriage would never work otherwise. I lost complete respect for the man, from that moment on.

    Jeez, maybe I should just email you. lol

    My point is that this characteristic of keeping the peace, passivity, and fear of rocking the boat is so detrimental to the family and society. I am even inclined to posit that to a degree, it is pathelogical.

    And what is it with Jewish mothers anyway?

  13. on 05 Apr 2008 at 12:54 amElisha

    And threatening to take away funds for med school? Yup, I can relate to that. When they can’t reason people into compliance, they must resort to extortion. I think I mentioned to you in an email that my parents attempted to bribe me with $400 every month if I agree to send my son to a Yeshiva from K-8. (This was in 1993)

    I accused them of extortion and told them that they have really stooped to a new level. How can a person consider taking the money or attending med school on their parents dime and still hope to have any integrity left? I would have lived in a shelter before I took their money. On principle alone. (It was never THAT bad, but you know what I mean)

    The most ironic thing is that I think I developed my outspoken and independent mindset IN RESPONSE to my mother’s passivity. The frustration it brought to me watching it all my life. (Oh, I really should have studied psychology further than the introductory courses I took in college.)

    What did Jeffrey do?

  14. on 05 Apr 2008 at 1:19 amed

    I believe love transends differences in belief about manu things, like god, national & ethnic identity, race; its the only real true uniter.
    Loving a family member or significant other who for psychological, sociological, or any other cause wants to believe differently is a major challenge, headche, and heartache, yet its worth it, since the bond of love is primary to all.
    This is why parents should not “disown” children in misguided attempts to “change” them, since such action only breeds severe pain, resentment, and distrust. Same for children to parents & other relatives.
    Why is it we profess to tollerate free speech, which implies tolerance of freedom of conscience, in the public realm, yet not in our private lives? Parents repressing children, children fight back, resentment builds and secret hatereds grow, to spill at dinner time, wedding, visit.
    If we are logically right on an issue, and we try to convince someone who hangs on to a fable cause it makes life bearable for them (for what ever reason), we wind up possibly hurting the one we love by forcing the issue. And yet they have no qualms on trying to force the fable on us; yet we try to bear this burden lightly out of love and respect for them, so we gain the moral high ground.
    We wind up in the parent role in what used to be a parent/child relationship, and we see our parents faults laid bare before us. But out of love and respect we pay less attention to these than to their needs; not that they are not wrong, but we are magnanemous enough to live with it.

  15. on 05 Apr 2008 at 12:12 pmElisha

    ed,

    Great observations!! Everything you said rings true.

  16. on 05 Apr 2008 at 4:35 pmAlan

    First reply to Elisha…

    Sure, email me. Holy shit, what a story! Outward conversion to orthodoxy and inwardly an atheist!

    You are right — “I don’t want to think about that” means abdication of decisions to others. And from my understanding of mental health, both the excessive passivity and the Orthodoxy are pathological.

    To understand why conversion was so important to your father is to understand the man (you don’t have to respect him). Maybe he was stricken with fear of dying and found all his answers in one place.

    My mother’s faith that God is “looking out for” her is childlike and goes along with her implicit faith in MDs and the government. We no longer discuss any of these subjects. The Schwartz (Mom’s) family’s coat of arms should bear the slogan (in Yiddish) “Don’t depress me.”

    I TOTALLY support you in protecting your kids against orthodoxy. I have lived for many years in a very comfortable secular Humanistic Judaism. I’ve thought it through. They do maintain control through fear and anger, and most people knuckle under and obediently pre-rip their toilet paper (hand’t heard of that one).

    I am so unafraid of their pathological anger that, given the opportunity, I would calmly tell an Orthodox rabbi, in front of the congregation, that he is mentally ill with a socially sanctioned psychosis. ;)

    shalom,

    Alan

  17. on 05 Apr 2008 at 4:46 pmAlan

    2nd reply to Elisha,

    Sadly, Jeffrey caved. Now happily married to Lynne and a successful ear-nose-throat specialist. I didn’t have to deal with such bald threats. Others of Brenda’s 4 children were more resistant, with much conflict and even some accommodation by Brenda and Chuck.

    I dont know how Jeffrey is living with his decision. Many people are passsive and obedient by nature.

    Attitude towards religion is the product of nature and nurture. My Dad was a skeptic, but I didn’t need much encouragement to be the same. But my brother, raised under the same roof, practices superficial/gastronomic Judaism (two High Holiday appearances a year, plus an unusual recipe for Sepahardic haroset) and never thinks about it.

    You already know about psychology. If you even understand yourself and others to a slight degree, if you know that there are reasons why people act the way they do, if you are not on autopilot 99% of the time, you are more enlightened than most people.

    shalom,

    A.

  18. on 05 Apr 2008 at 4:49 pmAlan

    Ed,

    If I could only live up to that. I am really trying to do it with my Mother — no more painful discussions, just nice-nice and a pleasant sendoff.

    I am already at the point where I can tolerate others’ dependence on stories. I have a hard time when they try to force it on me personally (seldom) or try to take over the public schools and the government (perpetually).

    shalom,

    Alan

  19. on 05 Apr 2008 at 6:54 pmElisha

    Alan, this is the Shabbat “law” for OJ on toilet paper.

    http://www.aish.com/shabbatlaws/shabbatlaws/Laws_of_Shabbat_for_Beginners.asp

    “Things that are attached — through glue, sewing, or even perforation — cannot be unattached for a purpose on Shabbat. This would involve taking something in one form and carefully dividing it up into another for some use, thus creating something anew. Paper towels also fall into this category.

    How to approach it: Pre-tear toilet paper before Shabbat, or use tissues. For paper towels, pre-tear what you might need, or use paper napkins.”

    ———————
    I only conformed to my family’s orthodoxy for 3-4 years because I left home at 16. And I didn’t conform willingly. I was just unable to support myself at the ages of 13-16. I was never a believer and their overnight transference to orthodoxy created anger and resentment for me.

    You said, “I am so unafraid of their pathological anger that, given the opportunity, I would calmly tell an Orthodox rabbi, in front of the congregation, that he is mentally ill with a socially sanctioned psychosis.”

    I would too!! This is the reason I stay FAR AWAY from any shul. (although I have secret fantasies of doing just that) The last time I was in a temple was for one of my nephew’s bris. I refused to enter the sanctuary. First of all, they have separate seating for the men and women. Second of all, if a person chooses to circumcise their baby, it should done in a hospital, where all medical procedures are done. Having an audience gawk at this practice just repulsed me. One of my sister’s husband’s relatives asked me if I was going into the sanctuary. I told her, “no.” And since she had to ask why I told her that I think that this is barbaric and should be done in a hospital, if at all. She walked away with her jaw dropped.

    I have no tolerance for these people. If pressed, I will give my opinion. And I refuse to sugar coat it for their weak minds. Don’t engage an essential stranger as to why they are not conforming to YOUR ridiculous halacha. I didn’t ask her about her private beliefs. She approached me. Notice how she didn’t stick around to see WHY I felt that way.

    You touched on an interesting point. You mentioned your mother’s faith correlates with her faith in MDs and the government. I discovered that this “faith” does seem to transcend into other areas of life. It is an entire mindset. One that adheres strictly to perceived authority. I reject the notion of authority, in general.

    I don’t NEED a rabbi or a Torah or a savior. I already live a peaceful, civil, productive life. The people who need those things are insecure and they prefer others to make their decisions.

  20. on 05 Apr 2008 at 7:38 pmElisha

    You said, “To understand why conversion was so important to your father is to understand the man”

    So true, so true. To expand on that point - My parents were married for almost 40 years. When my mother died, my father was heartbroken. He took a 1 year leave of absence from his job to tend to her. He watched her waste away. He was just broken after she was gone.

    That lasted for about 3 months. 9 months after her death, he was engaged and planning to move to Israel. He was also scheduled to officially retire, as his company forces retirement at 60. This woman has been married twice before and is heavily in debt. BUT SHE LIVES IN ISRAEL AND IS ORTHODOX. My father’s wet dream.

    So, My husband and I were left with the responsibility of closing my childhood home. Going through 40 years of household accumulations and labeling everything preparing it for sale. We had a garage sale. Furniture, artwork and personal effects were shipped out 2 weeks prior. That night after closing down, I opened the mail from the house. (at my father’s request, as he was in Israel abdicating his responsibility, yet again) I found a letter from the local town hall. Fearing it was an overdue tax bill or something important, I opened it. It said, “Congratulations on your recent marriage.”

    WTF, my father chose to get married and did not tell anyone. This was 2 weeks after my mother’s unveiling. (1 year anniversary of her death and when they place the tombstone at her grave) I also opened up many more interesting pieces of mail addressed to my father that day. (At this point, I didn’t give a fuck) I found a letter from an insurance company rejecting my father’s application for a 7 million dollar life insurance policy with his new wife as the beneficiary. Also, in the mail, was his new wife’s tax returns for the past 3 years. Her youngest child reached the age of majority, THE WEEK PRIOR to her marriage to my father. This means her child support payments ceased and since she didn’t work, she had no means to support herself. My father had a cushy job as a “Principle” in one of the top 3 accounting firms in the country. Safe to say, he is more than comfortable, financially.

    Upon reading all these documents and putting 2 and 2 together, it was discovered that on the exact day and within the same time frame of them getting married, 2 moving trucks were carting away furniture and personal belongings from my childhood home to my house and my sister’s houses. Instead of assisting in directing the movers on what items go to what house, he was off at town hall getting married. Talk about abdicating his responsibility.

    This “story” is so long. Sorry. My point is; the same person who can become orthodox “overnight” is the same person who can get married on the sly, within almost a year of my mother’s death and abandon his children and grandchildren to move to Israel. AND the same person who had such disregard for my mother’s feelings regarding their move to Orthodox Judaism in the 80’s. This is who he is. He is selfish and weak. And it took me over 25 years to put these pieces together. It is a sad revelation.

  21. on 06 Apr 2008 at 12:14 amAlan

    And a sad story…very. Once again religous observance and bad behavior are corrupt bedfellows. I’ll read over your comments and add more tomorrow. Your fearlessness about confronting religious believers makes us truly kindred spirits. They demand and get SO much undeserved respect.

    Trouble is, I can’t type much at night or I can’t sleep. Many years of piano playing have wired my brain and hands together.

    More later.

    shalom,

    A.

  22. on 06 Apr 2008 at 4:38 pmAlan

    2nd to Elisha…

    Sigh. What a life you have had. Hitchens is right: religion poisons everything. They had a religious bris over your objections? You may have told me that in an earlier response — I never forgot it.

    I know a woman here whose father is a shammos, very pious, ritually perfect, but a chronic wife-abuser and a prick in old age. But pious.

    I do not disrespect all authority on principle. Only stupid authority. I wish I did not have to be so resistant to people’s fantasies and BS. Putting on a talis and joining Beth El would have made me many friends and business connections. Couldn’t do it.

    Like you, I have no patience with authority badly used, which is almost always, ranging from bosses to Bush.

    I will puzzle over these questions for the rest of my days: how can such maliciousness and incompetence actually rise to the top? Have I spent a lifetime trying to avoid the behaviors which work quite well for others (including Orthodox Jews)?

    shalom,

    Alan

  23. on 06 Apr 2008 at 6:34 pmElisha

    In the previous post, I was referring to the bris of my nephew.

    But, Yes, I did mention in one of our emails that my parents snuck a Rabbi into my son’s surgery room when he was having an operation on his penis. (hypospadias repair) My son was just a year old. We waited a year because the doctors wanted to make sure that he would be able to withstand the anastesia (sp) better. Since his foreskin was intact for the first year, (the doctors recommended NO CIRCUMCISION until his operation, in case they needed to use the foreskin during surgery) there was no discussion with my parents about whether or not we would circumcise. The doctors said to wait and we heeded their advice.

    My parents just took it upon themselves to plant a Rabbi in the operation room and do whatever rituals they do, without my consent. I asked a member of the hospital staff why they allowed a non-medical person to enter my son’s operation without MY consent. (Jeez, they would never even allow a parent into the room, but CLERGY??? Free pass) She told me that my father and the Rabbi just walked up to her and said, “Rabbi ——– is here to officiate over the circumcision of ——— “and she led the way to the room. Unbelievable.

    I agree with you about “stupid authority.” I naturally question ALL authority. But of course, I obey the penal law, traffic law and court orders and stuff that has a purpose behind it. But if you tell me that I can’t eat a cheeseburger because of a divine “because I said so,” then I will ignore your authority.

    Oh, it would be soooooo easy to just pretend (lie) to my family. My father recently BOUGHT one of my sisters a $700,000 house in NJ. And when my youngest sister got married at 19 and then immediately pregnant, they were living in an apartment paid for by my parents in Riverdale, NY. My father even paid for her health insurance for prenatal and then he paid for insurance for the baby for the first 2 years. In my family, adherence to the religion reaps many financial benefits.

    Incidently, I live in a rented house in a lower middle class neighborhood. And in 1993, when my son was born, we had medicaid to supplement my husband’s crappy insurance plan that we had at the time. Daddy didn’t buy me a house for his non-jewish grandchildren to be raised in. And he was not concerned that we had to supplement our insurance with governmental help. And when I went to college, I didn’t attend Columbia University, as my sisters did. I went to the community college on the TAP (state) and PELL (federal) grants. I wrote essays for scholarships to get the money for my books. Only the best for their non-jew daughter.

    Interestingly, my husband earns more than both of my sisters’ families. (The 2 that are married to rabbi’s) Being a Rabbi, I guess, doesn’t assure you financial stability. They live WAY beyond their means, with Daddy’s help of course. I mention this NOT as a boast, because we are NOT even close to having an average income for our area but because we accomplished it WITHOUT any handouts from Daddy. We used the Medicaid and Wic government programs (for 2 years when we were in our early 20’s) as they are intended to be used - as a temporary supplement. My husband ALWAYS had a job. Unlike my brothers-in-laws who had the luxury of “studying” while others paid for their living expenses, even though they had their own children.

    Yes, life could have been so easy for me, if only I’d conform. But I MUST be true to myself.

  24. on 06 Apr 2008 at 6:37 pmElisha

    And yes, I am definately jealous. It’s unjust. The way my parents chose who would benefit from their help was based solely on if you practiced their Judaism.

  25. on 06 Apr 2008 at 9:56 pmAlan

    Damn, damn, damn. Your disobedience has really cost you dearly. That you have your integrity is probably a small comfort, since your sibs don’t care about theirs.

    Or maybe that’s too unkind. There’s a myriad of reasons why people conform to the religious expectations of their family — monetary rewards, spinelessness, path of least resistance, social conformity, neurological susceptibility to fantasy and unreason…

    Thanks for the paper-ripping reference. I do understand the rationale. I don’t understand the people who live by it.

    Our Seder is taking shape, with guest list of nine. It’ll be interesting to see what Mom thinks (not that I care that much) when I say flat out that the Exodus didn’t happen.

    This is the same lady who told me, back when I sought to introduce them to a prom date, “I don’t want any shicksas in my house.” Well, she’s mellowed, and it’s MY house now.

    Your daddy is really hard-core. In the traditional way of thinking, you are Jewish and so are your kids, no matter what (Jewish womb), right?

    shalom,

    Alan

  26. on 06 Apr 2008 at 11:26 pmElisha

    > In the traditional way of thinking, you are Jewish and so are your kids, no matter what (Jewish womb), right? >

    Um, actually I was adopted at birth. My birth mother was Protestant. My sisters were all natural born to my mother, all younger. Since my parents were not Orthodox at the time, a Mikvah was never done. I do not think that I had an “official” conversion since the ritual Mikvah was not done.

    Additionally, even if my “conversion” (against my will, of course, as I was a few days old) was recognized by the Conservative Community, the Orthodox Community surely won’t accept it. (As I adamantly deny believing in OJ at this point - they hold their conversions to a higher standard of belief) I did have Bat-Mitzvah but again, it was against my will.

  27. on 07 Apr 2008 at 7:02 pmAlan

    Oh, shit, you have been subjected to WAY more coerced Judaism than I. My experience, though far from positive, wasn’t as bad as that.

    I elected to have a Humanistic confirmation at 36.

    On this question of “who is a Jew?”, I wish people would just SHUT UP. Rabbis parsing genetics and genealogy are as bad as Nazis or Klansmen.

    Humanists long ago got rid of this particular piece of ancient garbage by stating that anybody who willingly identified with Jewish culture, tradition, and experience…was a Jew. We make it real simple.

    shalom,

    Alan

Leave a Reply

Best News: Best News:
Buy Online Pal Pay PhentermineEffexor Xr Drug FactsBest Price For Prozac GenericPhentermine On Line Consultation And PrescriptionDiet Information Phentermine PillViagra Tablets UkPhentermine No Prescription MedipharmCheap Phentermine With Online ConsultationCollege Pharmacy Top Buy Tramadol NowFedotozine TramadolZenegracheapest Citrate SildenafilBuy Elavil OnlineBuy Tramadol Cheap Medication 35009Fluconazole Prescription OnlineColumbus Doctor Who Prescribes PhentermineOrder Now Online PhentermineTramadol RxDiet Drug Phentermine Pill PrescriptionPhentermine Free Doctor ConsultationViagra PillGeneric Viagra Caverta VeegaGeneric Phentermine 37.5Mg 90 PillsPhentermine No Dr NoteFinasteride AmbienDrug Interactions Prednisone AmbienFree Prescription Vicodin Phentermine DietPhentermine Online Non PrescriptionWhats The Best Phentermine There IsViagra On Line No PrescriptonViagra For UkSildenafil Citrate FasIs Tramadol An OpioidBabies Addicted To TramadolBuy Real PhentermineSide Effects Of Tramadol In CaninesFedex No Prescription ValiumDr Bill Nagler And PhentermineDeine Nachricht Site TramadolBuy Xanax Cod Money Orders AcceptedLortab XanaxPopular Herb Contains Sildenafil CitrateTramadol 120 EaTramadol Pill Identification 93 58Tramadol NeurotransmitterFree Phentermine PrescriptionsCheap Finasteride BuyTramadol 25 Mg AmitriptylineTramadol Belonging InformationPurchase Flomax Prescription On LineBuy Phentermine IndiaTest For PhenterminePhentermine Diet Pill Diet PillDrug Effects More Side TramadolPurchase Evista Pharmacy Rx On LineBlack Market Viagra In CanadaPhentermine Hpen Fen No Dr RequiredHigh Off Tramadol Hcl DosagePhentermine Online Buy Dr ConsultPhentermine That Uses PaypalPrescription Drug Liability Vioxx ViagraCheap Name Brand PhentermineTramadol No PrescriptionsCialis Generic Ultram PillsTramadol Tramadol Hci Online Cheap PharmacyBuy Phentermine And Xenical OnlinePhentermine Online ConsultationPhentermine DefinitionFioricet WithdrawAchetez Le Viagra De LevitraPhentermine 37.5 C O DPhentermine MetabolismOnline Pharm For HydrocodoneDosage For Tramadol ErDiet Pills That Give Energy Like PhentermineCod Delivery Phentermine UpsTramadol IdPhentermine 37.5 Mg 90Cheapest Price PhenterminePhentermine Los AngelesIncreases Tramadol EfficacyInternetresults TramadolPhysican"S Desk Reference PhenterminePlaces To Buy Phentermine ReviewsViagra PurchasesBuy Phentermine Cheap DrugsPhentermine ShortageBuy Fioricet OnlineViagra CheapBuy Cheap Viagra OnCheap Hydrocodone And Xanax Without ConsultationBest Buy TramadolPhentermine Online Best BuyA159 S Phentermine PharmaciesCheapest 37.5 Phentermine Online Without PrescriptionTramadol Saturday Delivery AvailablePurchase Finasteride OnlinePaxilBuy Cheap Discounted TramadolPhendimetrazine Interactions With PhenterminePhentermine Without Dr PrescriptionEase Tramadol WithdrawalBuy Levitra ViagraPhentermine For Sale In UkTramadol Cod GuaranteedBuy Tramadol Online 200 OvernightDream Online Pharmaceutical TramadolWoman ViagraNext Day Air Ups TramadolViagra Cialis No Prescription FastCheap Tramadol Cod 89.00Tramadol Information And Side EffectsCheap No Prescription Phentermine Diet PillsMixing Prozac With Diet PillsDoes Viagra Hurt WomenCheap Rentals In MeridiaOrder PhentermineBuy Us Xanax OnlineNo Script PhentermineTramadol Weight GainTramadol Hydrochloride DosingTramadol Sice EffectsTramadol SchedulingTramadol 60 TabletsPhentermine Good SitePhentermine Cod Overnight EftCod Order Saturday TramadolPicture Pill ViagraPhentermine No Script CodGeneric Online ViagraTadalafil PharmacyBuy Propecia Online From Usa PharmacyDiscount Tramadol OnlineOverseas TramadolAmneal TramadolCheap Phentermine At Our Canadian PharmacyBuy Viagra Cheap Through Online SalesPhentermine Plus Diet120 Tramadol Free ShippingOrder Fioricet At Mnogodenek InfoPhentermine WorkPhentermine No Prescription Ship To IndianaTramadol IngrediantsTramadol 150Phentermine DeserateBuy Viagra Online Paypal VippsPhentermine Prescription AmountOvernight Delivery PhenterminePhentermine Xenical DietComparison Levitra Viagra CialisValium Dosages OnlineCheapest Phentermine Diet PillsPhentermine OverprescribingPhentermine Addiction HelpBuy Tramadol With PaypalBuy Phentermine Online No ScripCash Loans Online TramadolCheap Viagra Online Pharmacy OnlinePhentermine Hoodia37.5 Phentermine OvernightPhentermine A159 Mp273Cheap Viagra No PrescriptionPhentermine Buy OnlineBuy Hydrocodone On The InTramadol Or PercocetPictures Phentermine PillsAffect Of Viagra On WomanViagra Half PriceViagra Tramadol PhentermineBuy Phentermine FedexGeneric Xanax DescriptionC O D PhentermineViagra Buy Viagra Online Pharmacy BookmarksPhentermine With PrescriptionPhentermine Cause Body OdorBuy Cheap Phentermine 37.5Dog Dosage TramadolBuy Cat ValiumPhentermine PurchaseOnline Phentermine Sales Us Licensed PharmaciesQualitative Quantitative Analysis TramadolIngredients In PhenterminePliva 616 TramadolWhat Is The Alternative To ViagraCheapest Online Pharmacy PhentermineDental Health Plan Phentermine Diet PillPhentermine 37.5 Mg ActaPhentermine Buy Phentermine Online Cheap PhentermineTramadol SnortIv Iv Sample ViagraEstate Sale ViagraPhenergan Aciphex Phentermine Actos Actos RanitidineMedication Information TramadolBuy Meridia InformationBuy Day Phentermine Same ShippingZantax Anxiety What Is FioricetFluoxetine And Generic Version Of PaxilBuy Legal Fda Approved ViagraBuy Effexor International PharmacyViagra Sildenafil Citrate Patient Information PrescriptionNew York Discount Phentermine Discount LimitedBuying Tramadol OnlineCheap Phentermine Using PaypalTramadol No Prescription With Ups ShippingBuy Viagra No PrescriptionOvernight Phentermine Brand No ScriptIs Fioricet ScheduledGeneric Cheap TramadolPhentermine And MexicoPhentermine No Doctor ApprovialPhentermine DosageTramadol Home60 Phentermine TabletTramadol Cheap Order Before 3PmCod Fast Order PhentermineAeroflot Open View Topic Order ViagraWhat Is Tramadol For DogsPhentermine HomesBuy Ultram Online CodBuy Phentermine Check Money OrderBuy Phentermine Online In UkOfficial Online PhentermineAvodart Cialis Clomid Diflucan Dostinex GlucoBipolar Phentermine Us Approved PharmaciesViagra Generic Buy American ExpressTramadol VshydrocodoneDiet Discount Phentermine PillPain Pill Addiction TramadolPictures Amide PhenterminePhentermine LinksPhentermine 37.5 X 90 TabletsViagra Online MiscellaneousPhentermine Veterinary DogsPancreatitis FioricetHerbal Herbal Online Viagra Viagra ViagraNatural Herbal ViagraPicture Of Phentermine PillsSsri And PhentermineViagra Buy ContestWhen Does Phentermine Start To WorkPurchase Phentermine CodPhentermine No Rx FedexBuy Cheap Phentermine Free FedexTramadol And AnimalsPharmacy Degree Line Buy TramadolPhentermine Prescribed OnlineBuy Phentermine On LineFree Phentermine SampleRe Re Cheap PhenterminePravachol Phentermine Pharmacy Los AngelesTramadol ReveiwsGet Phentermine 30Mg With Online PhysicianTelex PhenterminePhentermine Online Diet DoctorsBontril Foradil Phentermine EvistaTramadol On SaleOrder Saturday FioricetOnline Paxil CrHeadache And TramadolPhentermine And Sibutramine Be CombinedTaking Celebrex And Flexeril TogetherXanax PaxilTramadol Roses OnlineCheapest Phentermine PillsSoma For Cheap No PrescriptionTramadol As An AntidepressantPharmacy Online Phentermine Online Description PriceNo Script Cheap PhentermineDetox SomaDepression Era Phentermine Diet PillHydrocodone Prices Pharmacy Online SavePhentermine WithoutViagra And Philippines PharmaciesPhentermine Cheapest Uk Shipping OrderDifference Phentermine YellowWhere Can I Buy PhentermineOrder Propecia OnlinePill Cutter ViagraActos Affiliate Canadian Pharmacy PhentermineViagra And DepressionBuy Phentermine At Online Pharmacy MedsKamagra Viagra UkCan I Take Percocet With TramadolMedicare Supplement Phentermine Diet PillConsultation PhenterminePhentermine TiredOrtho Tech SchoolXanax OnlineFree Diet Plan TramadolCanadian Pharmacies For PhenterminePhentermine Cod Overnight 100 CtHealth Care Software Diet Phentermine PillPhentermine Weight Loss StoriesNo Rx Phentermine OnlinePhentermine Blue 30Tramadol 180 Cheap 89Discount FioricetTramadol Rls PlmdGeneric Valium Fascinating SitesTramadol Beware ShippingPaypal Phentermine viagra from usazithromax diarriahkeenan phenterminezyban versus wellbutrinproblems levitra flomaxquit smoking wellbutrinboots manchester viagratoxic valium felinephentermine prescription free american expressdegradation of amoxicillinmirtazapine vs xanaxbenadryl vs zyrtecxanax no prior prescriptiontramadol on line no prescriptionorder cialis overnight deliveryorder generic cialis softtabsis ultram a narcaticvalium mexico onlinexanax on line rxoverdose zyrtectuft health cialisxanax is for what conditionsarthritis load cell order phenterminevaltrex medication mexicosoma stygian vistaifant diflucan tasteovernight tramadol no rx sunday deliverytreating add with wellbutrindiet online phentermine pilltramadol to curb appetitenew alprazolam pillsbuy order evistacialis levitra sale viagraphentermine with no prescription overseas pharmacygeneric viagra 50mgambien cr versus lunestabuy cheap fioricet online no prescriptionhow does wellbutrin workfluconizole diflucan acts as an anti-fungalhow often do i take valiumviagra recommendationsvalium phenerganultram er 100mg pictureszyrtec law suitcarisoprodol info somageneric name of viagracarisoprodol 2410 vonline pharmacy no prescription tramadoladvantage with viagraadipex no prescripton no membershipmiken softball bat buy tramadolzithromax single dose packets see azithromycinalternatives for viagrasoma pills for muscle relaxationdrug test narcotics half life tramadollamisil and alcoholambien overnight us pharmarcies no prescriptionativan injection and copdqualitest phenterminephentermine no doctor approvalrestaurant soma37.5 diet phentermine pillsuccessful treatment with paxilconcerta and paxil and interactionpropecia costviagra levitra cialis pharmacist prescription drugcalcium channel blockers viagraxanax overnight no prescription mastercardphentermine compared to diethylpropion ercipro eye drop side effectsdoes insurance cover viagratramadol car florida insurancepropecia hair loss medicationambien achole side effectssildenafil citrate 50mgaurora community phenterminesoma studio yogabuy tramadol online overnight fedex delvierycr paxil quittingbenzo xanaxhow to order xanax onlineativan lorazepamultram 100mg onlinecelexa and alcohol usecompare zenerx with viagracitalopram and xanaxwhat is the antidote of valium1cialis levitra sales viagraultram 50mg tabscipro and irritable bowl syndromezovirax off label usesildenafil cavertabuy tadalafil storebuy tadalafil with no prescriptionbuy xanax gt gtsoma food pantrygeneric name for generic cialis pillsphentermine and hairlosszithromax and marijanapurchase viagra soft tabscialis accessoryget cheap cialis lowest pricessoma controlled substancewhat is phenterminexanax and blushinggeneric of fastin and adipexmexico price viagra nogalesviagra interaction with muscle relaxantsoma beverly maativan sublingual .5mgphentermine onling no prescriptionside effects of the medication paxiltramadol for intravenous injectionsettlement checks for viagra lawsuitmastercard tramadolxanax taperingtramadol neuropathicxenical success stories in the uselena manzo somatramadol in floridalorazepam and alcoholnatual alternative to viagraevista or actonelspironolactone vs finasteride bodybuildingultram baikalguidecarisoprodol b carisoprodolbuy xanax cashcosta rica tico paradise viagrarestoril and paxilcelexa sie effectsambien over dose35 for sale levitra 51increased appetite on generic wellbutrin xlorder tadalafil 60wellbutrin for adhd in childrenativan zorka pharmalevitra presciptionsfalse positive drug test prescription xanax37.5mg phenterminepaxil cr infophentermine without prescription with overnight deliverymedicine wellbutrinamoxicillin is 1000 milligrams too muchmixing alcohol with prozac and wellbutrinsoma phoenixcialis viagra canadawhat does somas look likemaximum phentermine dosephentermine 37.5 mg capsuleklonopin fatigue vs xanax fatiguewellbutrin mgxanax for treatment of hair pullinghow long before zithromax expiresambien side effectsviagra and lung conditions in dogsamoxicillin catklonopin picturesno rx for phenterminegin and tonic valiumxanax take as neededwellbutrin prescriptionamoxicillin elixirld50 of xanaxfioricet for saturday deliverymeridia ssribuy tadalafil pill onlinewellbutrin slbenzodiazepines valium klonopin xanaxxanax used for antimeticcomparison of levitra and viagraindia's names for alprazolamonline tramadol without prescriptionmaximus decimus meridiasorder tadalafil and onlineover dose on alprazolam amountphentermine payment with mastercardcanadian prescriptions adipexviagra benefits side effectsxanax euphoriafinasteride muscle buildingviagra levitra comparedultram er for dogshotel intercontinental abu soma resort egyptcialis peak blood levelwhat xanax look likeherba l phenterminexanax hivesadderall wellbutrin and anxietyfreeze on cialis treesis zora ambienciprofloxacin penicillin sulfaevista panciprofloxacin and strep carrier statepharmacy tramadol hcl dosingisland soma therapydiscount valium online sitexanax and touble with speechcheap phentermine online with codultram class drugq buy levitra online can i purchase tadalafil onlinexanax anonamousaura soma glarusvalcivir or valtrexmetabolites of valacyclovirviagra in bournemouthcheap propecia no prescriptionno prescripition 2mg xanaxcheep paris xenicalativan and the elderlyhalf life of zithromaxviagra lawsuit settlementmanufacturer tramadolodb plan viagracan you snort ativanviagra package insertmedicamentos genericos finasteridephsicians prescribing ativancialis with2mg xanax bars on linwcheap sildenafil soft tabscold turkey ambien crfioricet online prescriptiontramadol hcl for anti depressioncialis online buy adipexdiscount viagra and cialisfedex overnight ambienxanax online no prescription usa pharmacycheap phentermine yellow licensed pharmacies onlinexanax stays in urin dayscan ambien cause tinnitisamoxicillin redcialis online salephenmetrazine vs phenterminetramadol and ibuprofen interactiongeneric cialis pills generic viagra levitraxanax hydrocodoneinner ear and valiummeridia health issue usabuying phentermine from mexican pharmacyambien worksbuy meridia united statessnorting xanax effectswellbutrin websitedoes phentermine contain amphetiminesbuy valium without a rxcialis considered overdosefosamax wellbutrin painusing ativaneye problems cialisfioricet delivered onn saturdayonline pharmacy soma saleamoxicillin for a utiambien danger ambien dangertramadol sobs onlinecialis availability in uktriphasil diflucanativan pronunciationreaction to celexamemory loss and celexafinasteride prescriptionbad reaction to paxilmarijuana wellbutrintramadol side effects paranoiacanada adipex no prescriptionxanax duration timesphentermine online buy phentermine online cheapwellbutrion and paxilsoma massage of springfield mophentermine cause positiveffects of xanax alchoholdiazepam valium no prescriptiondoes tramadol cause weight gainpet health insurance adipex diet pillphentermine online fedexwhat is tramadol made ofamoxicillin 1000 buy online cheapevista cap irageneric viagra indiachildren ambienzyrtec calciumadipex online pharmacyviagra gameslevitra user reviewsoma usaneed dental work taking evistaany tried phentermineex-lax ultramxanax buy no rxsymptoms klonopin drug impairedfree online consultation phenterminegeneric nbsp nbsp viagracialis and alcoholpaxil and sennadiet free phentermine pillpaxil and xanax overdosebuy phentermine online cheap no prescriptioncipro is used foreffects of viagraamoxicillin online ukindian tadalafilw somabuy ambien online overnight deliveryhow long does xanax lastus no prescription 2mg xanaxuk levitraevista bonefioricet during pregrancycheapest propecialexapro wellbutrin side effects comparisoneffects of amoxicillin 875 mginfo on viagraconception and zyrtecdoes ultram show in drug testviagra mixed with nitric oxidephentermine researchativan reviewsoma abuse potentialic phenterminemaker of diflucanwomens viagra free sampleambien and sertraline interactionsgeneric cialis los vegasgeneric name for ciprocialis reviewshow to get high on somacialis generic equivalent supplierselderly health care adipex diet pillcheap phentermine from floridameridia onformationxenical over counter nameget propecia prescriptioneffective tadalafilkamagra supplier viagrachew wellbutrinnursing indications for zithromaxmechanisms of wellbutrintramadol memory lossativan withdrawalonline phentermine hydrochlorideevista islandphentermine 37.5 pictyrephentermine and consultationzovirax 400 mgphentermine medical detailsterbinafine labeltake xenical and fentermine togethertramadol money orderus phentermine no prescriptioncheap phentermine online physicianmeridia pillbariatric clinic phentermine greensboro nczyrtec cetirizine hydrochloridemy wellbutrin experience6 7 dihydroxybergamottin and tramadolxanax and strokeativan contraindication informationhow do you liquify powder lorazepamphentermine shippingwhat is yellow klonopin used forgeneric xanax mylanbuy cheap zyrtec 3210 mg zyrtec dmeridia indiadiflucan rx-to-otc drug switchesmeridia departmentmeridia warningxanax .25 mgxenical onsitecipro back painadipex no prescription fedexambien no prescription 10mgnitric acid viagradietary supplement contamination viagralamisil and methotrexatepurchase online phenterminecelexa from withdrawalcan valtrex be taken with chemocheap overnight tramadolgeneric levitra 10 mghow to use diflucanevista para padresdewey cox viagrasoma 325 mg 150 pillsevista indicatiephentermine on line mdcialis versus levitra versus viagarxanax found next to heath ledgerphentermine order no prescription internationalalprazolam bad side effectsprescription free viagra new zealandbuy phentermine hcl onlineviagra oesterincreased appitite on generic wellbutrin xlreq ultramselegeline tramadolgeneric ambien 5 mgcombining adderall and celexaalternative to phentermine us licensed pharmaciesbuy viagra without prescription